LASIK and Blurred Vision after sleeping

[a***@gmail.com]

I had LASIK done one year ago and it was a partial success. My right
eye gets blurry and I think I know why it gets blurry. It has to do
with sleeping. I sleep on my stomach and I think there's pressure on
my right eye during sleep. Some days my right eye is not blurry, while
some other days I feel like I need glasses again.

Any ideas or suggestions on how to prevent this from happeneding would
be greatly appreciated, besides changing the way I sleep.

Thanks.

[Pauli Soininen]

Post by a***@gmail.com
Any ideas or suggestions on how to prevent this from happeneding
would be greatly appreciated, besides changing the way I sleep.

Hey, that's not good for your eye to sleep on it. I still do it every now
and then but I really try to avoid it. I simply sleep on my back and tell
myself not to sleep on my face. If I "have to" sleep on my stomach, I'll put
the pillow so that the cheek is on the pillow and not the eye. Not that
reliable method though. I don't want to use the protective shield because of
this but I believe there are studies suggesting that pressure on the eye
slows down the healing.

It probably isn't fatal to have the vision temporarily blurred because of
the pressure but it sure doesn't feel very good.

[Glenn - USAEyes.org]

Sleeping on your stomach may contribute to the problem, but it seems
more likely that the problem is a small amount of corneal swelling
that might be related to dry eyes.

Next time this occurs, use a couple of drops of preservative-free eye
drops. TheraTears is one brand, but there are several. It is
important that they are 100% preservative free (they will be more
expensive).

If within a couple of minutes your vision clears up , you may have a
dry eye problem.

We have a detailed article on dry eye treatment at
http://www.complicatedeyes.org/dry_eye_treatment.htm, but much more
important than anything our websites can provide would be for you to
get yourself to your doctor and be examined. Preferably, early in the
morning.

Glenn Hagele
Executive Director
USAEyes.org

"Consider and Choose With Confidence"

Email to glenn dot hagele at usaeyes dot org

http://www.USAEyes.org
http://www.ComplicatedEyes.org

I am not a doctor.

[serebel]

Post by a***@gmail.com
I had LASIK done one year ago and it was a partial success. My right
eye gets blurry and I think I know why it gets blurry. It has to do
with sleeping. I sleep on my stomach and I think there's pressure on
my right eye during sleep. Some days my right eye is not blurry, while
some other days I feel like I need glasses again.
Any ideas or suggestions on how to prevent this from happeneding would
be greatly appreciated, besides changing the way I sleep.
Thanks.

Happens to me sometimes. My right eye blurs a little for a few
hours.It's from smashing of the eye into the pillow etc., which
flattens the interface temporarily.
You could try wearing a mask or goggles that surround the orbit which
should alleviate this problem.

SErebel

[a***@gmail.com]

Can you recommend a particular mask or goggles for sleeping?

[d***@msn.com]

There is a commercially available product called "eye shields" that can
be worn on the eye like a plastic bubble to keep you from pressing on
the globe. Most tanning goggles could do the trick also.

[Ragnar]

It's not a big deal... your surgeon will give you the things you
need. The only thing you really need to try to achieive is to lay
flat on your back after your surgery for 8 hours and have your shields
on. That's enough time for the epithelial cells to form enough of a
seal to be very safe.

Avoid getting kicked in the eye or have a branch of a tree jab you in
the eye after your surgery. (Incidentally.. even in the case of the
branch in the eye, the lasik flap was not disturbed)

Post by a***@gmail.com
Can you recommend a particular mask or goggles for sleeping?

[Tabby]

Post by serebel

Post by a***@gmail.com
I had LASIK done one year ago and it was a partial success. My right
eye gets blurry and I think I know why it gets blurry. It has to do
with sleeping. I sleep on my stomach and I think there's pressure on
my right eye during sleep. Some days my right eye is not blurry,

while

Post by a***@gmail.com
some other days I feel like I need glasses again.
Any ideas or suggestions on how to prevent this from happeneding

would

Post by a***@gmail.com
be greatly appreciated, besides changing the way I sleep.
Thanks.

Happens to me sometimes. My right eye blurs a little for a few
hours.It's from smashing of the eye into the pillow etc., which
flattens the interface temporarily.
You could try wearing a mask or goggles that surround the orbit which
should alleviate this problem.
SErebel

SErebel, you are truly an idiot. Nobody who has not had LASIK gets
blurry eyes for a FEW HOURS after sleeping face down on their PILLOW.
Your corneas are so thin, deformable and DAMAGED that you can distort
your vision with a PILLOW. Good grief!
The fact that you suggest that people need goggles to keep their
fragile post-LASIK eyes from being deformed during sleep and you're
acting like this is NOT A PROBLEM should tell you that you indeed have
a problem... called DENIAL in addition to thin and damaged corneas, and
your message should send a clear signal to prospective patients that
LASIK is a BAD surgery.

[serebel]

Post by Tabby

Post by serebel
Happens to me sometimes. My right eye blurs a little for a few
hours.It's from smashing of the eye into the pillow etc., which
flattens the interface temporarily.
You could try wearing a mask or goggles that surround the orbit which
should alleviate this problem.
SErebel

SErebel, you are truly an idiot. Nobody who has not had LASIK gets
blurry eyes for a FEW HOURS after sleeping face down on their PILLOW.
Your corneas are so thin, deformable and DAMAGED that you can distort
your vision with a PILLOW. Good grief!
The fact that you suggest that people need goggles to keep their
fragile post-LASIK eyes from being deformed during sleep and you're
acting like this is NOT A PROBLEM should tell you that you indeed have
a problem... called DENIAL in addition to thin and damaged corneas, and
your message should send a clear signal to prospective patients that
LASIK is a BAD surgery.

Tabby, you are a truly hysterical lunatic. What was described in
previous posts is very common and temporary. Just because you are all
screwed up,(mentally), has no bearing toward anyone elses outcome.

SErebel

[Caoline Barrington]

My right eye occasionally was blurry for a long time, I had Lasik a year
ago. Go back to your surgeon and get tested for dry eyes, they may be dry
and you can't feel it. I've now had my right tear duct plugged the last
couple of weeks and also stayed out away form air conditioned office and
noticed my right eye hasn't been blurry, vision improved by 0.5 dioctre. Its
important to keep that eye moist if dry as needs to be moist in order for
the nerves that detect dryness to carry on healing properly.

Post by a***@gmail.com
I had LASIK done one year ago and it was a partial success. My right
eye gets blurry and I think I know why it gets blurry. It has to do
with sleeping. I sleep on my stomach and I think there's pressure on
my right eye during sleep. Some days my right eye is not blurry, while
some other days I feel like I need glasses again.
Any ideas or suggestions on how to prevent this from happeneding would
be greatly appreciated, besides changing the way I sleep.
Thanks.

[Tabby]

Caroline,

It's a shame that you have to wear plugs in your tear ducts to see
normally. You will likely have to wear a plug for the rest of your
life. Another problem with dry eye is that it can worsen with age,
especially in females. In addition to giving you blurry vision it can
cause constant discomfort. You may already be dependent on eye drops.
If not, this may be in your future. This is because LASIK permanently
damages corneal nerves that control wetting of the eye.

Caroline, please tell your friends that your LASIK was not free of
complication. Others who do not hear about the side-effects of LASIK
enter into the situation 'blindly' so to speak (persuaded by someone
who has a profit motive, typically)and end up inevitably losing some
visual quality and acquiring perment eye damage. Permanent eye damage?
Yes, every LASIK patient has permanent eye damage. The integrity of the
cornea is never restored after LASIK, and multiple studies have shown
long-term corneal nerve loss. Glenn Hagele will tell you that most
LASIK problems last 6 months. Looks like he's wrong. Every post-LASIK
has a flap that doesn't heal and has nerve damage lasting for years if
not indefinitely.

Don't get me started about debris under the flap and posterior vitreous
detachment!

[Glenn - USAEyes.org]

What I will tell you, and everyone, is what is shown to be accurate in
multiple studies.

Dry eyes occur naturally, can be induced by refractive surgery, and/or
can be exacerbated by refractive surgery. Plugs that block the puntum
drains are a proven method to resolve dry eye problems that relate to
aqueous deficiency, no matter what the cause.

Puntal plugs are invisible, the patient cannot feel them (when
properly fitted), can be removed, and are considered safe and
effective. I suppose one could consider this a trade: puntal plugs
for glasses/contacts.

The LASIK flap does heal, but it does not heal like a cut on your arm.
For full details about LASIK flap healing, visit
http://www.usaeyes.org/faq/subjects/lasik_flap_heal.htm

And yes, let's please not get Tabby started.

Glenn Hagele
Executive Director
USAEyes.org

"Consider and Choose With Confidence"

Email to glenn dot hagele at usaeyes dot org

http://www.USAEyes.org
http://www.ComplicatedEyes.org

I am not a doctor.

[c***@yahoo.com]

Post by a***@gmail.com
I had LASIK done one year ago and it was a partial success. My right
eye gets blurry and I think I know why it gets blurry. It has to do
with sleeping.

Ditto here. I had LASIK a 1 1/2 year ago, then my right eye was
retreated 1 year ago. Often I wake up with significantly worse vision
in one eye or the other (my right eye is the most subject to the
problem). The problem lasts a day or more.

Under an Eye Dr's guidance, I've tried various eye drops, and strong
saline drops without any benefit. The problem manifests itself to some
degree about 10 days a month, but 3 or 4 days will be significantly
worse and will take a few days to clear up.

My left eye normally does pretty good on distance vision even when
the problem is there. But, the right eye has never been as good as the
left on close-up vision, and is often bad enough that reading glasses
don't help, regardless of the strength (I assume it is astigmatism
(sp?)). Also, the right eye had ongoing healing issues after the
re-treatment. There were micro-cysts under the flap for many months,
but cleared up eventually.

Fortunately the local dollar stores started carrying reading glasses.
So, I've purchased several pair, to make several pare of diffent
strengths in each eye. I have 3 glasses to choose from, which ever was
the best for that day. This allows me to continue to work, but doesn't
complete solve the problem.

I should point out that before the procedure, I normally would wear
my glasses, even when reading. Still, I was starting to see the
effects of presbyopia when I occasionally wanted to take my glasses off
to see something up close. But the Lasik procedure seems to have
suddenly accelerated the presbiopia for me.

Joe Dunfee

[Glenn - USAEyes.org]

Post by c***@yahoo.com
I should point out that before the procedure, I normally would wear
my glasses, even when reading. Still, I was starting to see the
effects of presbyopia when I occasionally wanted to take my glasses off
to see something up close. But the Lasik procedure seems to have
suddenly accelerated the presbiopia for me.

There are two ways to describe myopia (nearsighted) vision. One is
that you cannot see things far away, the other is that you can see
things close. With refractive surgery, you removed that "can see
things close" if you are also presbyopic and your eyes are no longer
able to change focus from distant objects to near. I call this
"Sudden Presbyopia" and we have a detailed article on this at
http://www.usaeyes.org/faq/subjects/sudden_presbyopia.htm

Glenn Hagele
Executive Director
USAEyes.org

"Consider and Choose With Confidence"

Email to glenn dot hagele at usaeyes dot org

http://www.USAEyes.org
http://www.ComplicatedEyes.org

I am not a doctor.

[c***@yahoo.com]

Thanks for the reply, however I don't think that article applies to
my situation. This is because I was wearing my distance glasses all
the time. I think the article is refering to a myopic person simply
removing their glasses to see up close.

I read quite a lot of information (including your web page and
Occular Surgery News) before I had the procedure. I never saw any
studies that seemed to involve the kind of response I had with my eyes
in regards to the accelerated presbyopia. The ongoing variable vision
is also not something I came across.

I had Type I diabetes, and certainly made sure I was under tight
control starting a month before the procedure and for several months
afterwards. But, digestive problems are interfering with my ability
to control my diabetes as well now. I wonder if the variable blood
sugar level is somehow causing the flap to vary. The first Dr to
suggest I get checked for diabetes was when I went to an Eye Dr to get
glasses because my distance vision was going. He said the lens will
swell with increased blood sugar. Perhaps the cornea has the same
thing happening and the flap distorts because of it.

I've consulted with two non-lasik Dr's about the continued problems I
have and one Dr who does many Lasik follow-ups. None have any more to
offer in terms of solutions. Things are not so bad that I would
consider any sort of re-treatment or lifting of the flap because I
would fear just making things worse.

Do you have any additional things to suggest I check out, especially
in regards to the continued variable vision (other than the
eye-guards)?

Joe Dunfee

[Pauli Soininen]

Post by Glenn - USAEyes.org
http://www.usaeyes.org/faq/subjects/sudden_presbyopia.htm

"When a person has refractive surgery to remove all of the myopia, suddenly
the lens is expected to accommodate."

It wasn't explained how the situation is different when one has glasses
of -X diopters and then refractive surgery of -X diopters. In both
situations, the eye has to accomodate when looking at near objects. I'm not
sure if it's correct to give the impression that the eye didn't accomodate
before surgery.

How is it when using contact lenses (I never used them and therefore I don't
know), is the ability to see very close worse than with glasses (on a person
that didn't have surgery)?

I know that I lost the ability to see extremely close with RS. 10cm is now
the closest I can see. I could see much nearer before, and that was with
glasses. Now, when I try to see extremely close, it's not really that I
couldn't accomodate, but what happens is that the image gets considerably
dark (probably because the pupil is constricting) and it starts to feel
quite uncomfortable in the eyes.

[Ragnar]

Glenn needs to add a little to that link below.

First, the true mechanics of presbyopia are not known, however two of
the factors involved are the natural crystalline lens becoming too
rigid over time, and the muscles used to affect that lens weaken.
Another factor that almost no eye doctors ever consider is that there
is much more to vision than just eyes. I'm too lazy to go looking
this up, but there are various processes within the brain which
process the visual data into images. They are not discussed since
there really is nothing you can do about them. Actually, quite a bit
of the brain is dedicated to processing visual information and giving
feedback to the eyes for focusing, etc.

Expecting the lens to accomodate after lasik is a bad expectation.
Lasik is done on the surface of the eye and doesn't do anything for
accomodation. Neither do contacts nor glasses.

You would not feel the constricting of the internal eye muscles that
bend the natural lens, however, you can get a headache from the
external muscles that move the eye around.

Post by Pauli Soininen

Post by Glenn - USAEyes.org
http://www.usaeyes.org/faq/subjects/sudden_presbyopia.htm

"When a person has refractive surgery to remove all of the myopia, suddenly
the lens is expected to accommodate."
It wasn't explained how the situation is different when one has glasses
of -X diopters and then refractive surgery of -X diopters. In both
situations, the eye has to accomodate when looking at near objects. I'm not
sure if it's correct to give the impression that the eye didn't accomodate
before surgery.
How is it when using contact lenses (I never used them and therefore I don't
know), is the ability to see very close worse than with glasses (on a person
that didn't have surgery)?
I know that I lost the ability to see extremely close with RS. 10cm is now
the closest I can see. I could see much nearer before, and that was with
glasses. Now, when I try to see extremely close, it's not really that I
couldn't accomodate, but what happens is that the image gets considerably
dark (probably because the pupil is constricting) and it starts to feel
quite uncomfortable in the eyes.

[Pauli Soininen]

Post by Ragnar
Lasik is done on the surface of the eye and doesn't do anything for
accomodation. Neither do contacts nor glasses.

I agree, but do you know if it's possible to see near equally well with
glasses or contacts? Where I'm getting at is that is the reason that before
myopic RS it is easier to see close because of the distance of glasses from
the eye (vs. correction being directly on the eye)? In other words the
accomodative range would be greater with minus glasses (than with contacts
or operated eyes) because of the distance of glasses.

Post by Ragnar
You would not feel the constricting of the internal eye muscles that
bend the natural lens, however, you can get a headache from the
external muscles that move the eye around.

The feeling is something like when the environment is too bright, the whole
eye kind of hurts. Or it just feels bad in the eye, uncomfortable. (When I
just did it really extreme, the image also started shaking.)

[RT]

Post by Pauli Soininen
Where I'm getting at is that is the reason that before
myopic RS it is easier to see close because of the distance of glasses from
the eye (vs. correction being directly on the eye)?

No, the reason you can see better close up before myopic RS is because
you were NEARsighted. That means your eye is good a focusing on things
close up, NEAR to your face. After LASIK, you are no longer
NEARsighted, and as you age it is harder for your eyes to focus on
things NEAR to your face. Even some myopic people need to use reading
glasses as their eyes age. If the muscles in their eyes could still
accommodate, they would still be able to see NEAR, because they are
NEARsighted. It's just that NEARsighted people can do without readers
for longer or altogether because they see NEAR better than far.

What is it you are having trouble understanding with this?

[Pauli Soininen]

Post by RT
No, the reason you can see better close up before myopic RS is
because you were NEARsighted.

Yes, and I believe you are talking about the situation without glasses.

Post by RT
That means your eye is good a focusing on
things close up, NEAR to your face.

Yes, without glasses. But, my point is, I could see quite near also well
with glasses. Much nearer than now with the refractive correction ablated in
my cornea. And that was my point. What is the mathematical/optical
difference when the correction is made with glasses and when it is made in
the cornea?

If someone can make the experiment with glasses and then contacts, that will
clear up things.

Post by RT
What is it you are having trouble understanding with this?

Not that it would be the end of the world, but why is this news group so
aggressive?

[RT]

Post by Pauli Soininen
If someone can make the experiment with glasses and then contacts, that will
clear up things.

that's probably because you could adjust the strength of your glasses by
letting them down your nose a bit, thereby making yourself a bit
nearsighted. You probably did this unconsciously. The closer the lenses
are to your face, the more correction to your eye. That's why contacts
are prescribed weaker than your spectacles. If you had worn contacts,
you probably would have had to wear reading glasses, unless you were
slightly undercorrected or were corrected for monovision (where one eye
is corrected for distance and one for near).

Now that you are no longer nearsighted and can no longer play with the
prescription (since it is lasered onto your eye), you are having trouble
seeing up close. Your nearsightedness allowed you to see up close even
though you were presbyotic.

Post by Pauli Soininen

Post by RT
What is it you are having trouble understanding with this?

Not that it would be the end of the world, but why is this news group so
aggressive?

Sorry if I came off aggressive. The caps were meant as emphasis, not as
aggression :)

The URL Glenn referred you before to explains things well:
http://www.complicatedeyes.org/sudden_presbyopia.htm

[Ragnar]

Once again.. it's time to change your standard endline...
The malcontent weasels keep changing names. LasikTruth is no longer
using that name.
I would suggest that Tabby or Hemmoroid would be good choices to be
considered the most extreme idiot.

[d***@optusnet.com.au]

People who are unable to argue a valid point, tend to play the man.
Tabby, Haemmorrhoid and others use this tactic time after time. Nothing
of any value to say, so they just attack people on a personal and very
juvenile level. It's like being back at school really!

[RT]

Post by Ragnar
Once again.. it's time to change your standard endline...
The malcontent weasels keep changing names. LasikTruth is no longer
using that name.
I would suggest that Tabby or Hemmoroid would be good choices to be
considered the most extreme idiot.

Okay, I'll keep it neutral until one or other of the names stick around
for a while and then I'll point out that you and that person are the two
extreme views that basically cancel each other out. Thanks for pointing
that out.

[Ragnar]

Thanks...
The totally correct cancelling out the totally false will work fine.

Post by RT

Post by Ragnar
Once again.. it's time to change your standard endline...
The malcontent weasels keep changing names. LasikTruth is no longer
using that name.
I would suggest that Tabby or Hemmoroid would be good choices to be
considered the most extreme idiot.

Okay, I'll keep it neutral until one or other of the names stick around
for a while and then I'll point out that you and that person are the two
extreme views that basically cancel each other out. Thanks for pointing
that out.

[Ragnar]

Glasses have too many problems to be bothered with. They are only
useful as a temporary solution such as for reading.
Rigid contacts yield the best vision, but many people can't tolerate
them or lose their tolerance of them over time.

I have two comments about myopic eyestrain. As a child, I would
sometimes get a book that interested me so much I would read the
entire thing for several hours per day. That gave me some massive
headaches. I would also get dried crusty glop on my eyes in the
moring that made me soak with a warm wet towel for 10 minutes before I
could pry my eyes open.

Post by Pauli Soininen

Post by Ragnar
Lasik is done on the surface of the eye and doesn't do anything for
accomodation. Neither do contacts nor glasses.

I agree, but do you know if it's possible to see near equally well with
glasses or contacts? Where I'm getting at is that is the reason that before
myopic RS it is easier to see close because of the distance of glasses from
the eye (vs. correction being directly on the eye)? In other words the
accomodative range would be greater with minus glasses (than with contacts
or operated eyes) because of the distance of glasses.

Post by Ragnar
You would not feel the constricting of the internal eye muscles that
bend the natural lens, however, you can get a headache from the
external muscles that move the eye around.

The feeling is something like when the environment is too bright, the whole
eye kind of hurts. Or it just feels bad in the eye, uncomfortable. (When I
just did it really extreme, the image also started shaking.)

[Pauli Soininen]

Often I wake up with significantly worse vision in one eye
or the other (my right eye is the most subject to the
problem). The problem lasts a day or more.

You should find out if it's because of sleeping on the eye. Get those
shields on your eyes and sleep with them to confirm it.

Also, the right eye had ongoing healing issues after the
re-treatment. There were micro-cysts under the flap for
many months, but cleared up eventually.

Be careful with those retreatments. Make sure the problem is properly
analyzed before attempting to correct it. You may end up with a treatment
that had no chance of being successful due to wrong analysis of the problem.

[Laser Hemmorroid Surgeon]

It has to do with you being a Moron...

Post by c***@yahoo.com

Post by a***@gmail.com
I had LASIK done one year ago and it was a partial success. My right
eye gets blurry and I think I know why it gets blurry. It has to do
with sleeping.

Ditto here. I had LASIK a 1 1/2 year ago, then my right eye was
retreated 1 year ago. Often I wake up with significantly worse vision
in one eye or the other (my right eye is the most subject to the
problem). The problem lasts a day or more.
Under an Eye Dr's guidance, I've tried various eye drops, and strong
saline drops without any benefit. The problem manifests itself to some
degree about 10 days a month, but 3 or 4 days will be significantly
worse and will take a few days to clear up.
My left eye normally does pretty good on distance vision even when
the problem is there. But, the right eye has never been as good as the
left on close-up vision, and is often bad enough that reading glasses
don't help, regardless of the strength (I assume it is astigmatism
(sp?)). Also, the right eye had ongoing healing issues after the
re-treatment. There were micro-cysts under the flap for many months,
but cleared up eventually.
Fortunately the local dollar stores started carrying reading glasses.
So, I've purchased several pair, to make several pare of diffent
strengths in each eye. I have 3 glasses to choose from, which ever was
the best for that day. This allows me to continue to work, but doesn't
complete solve the problem.
I should point out that before the procedure, I normally would wear
my glasses, even when reading. Still, I was starting to see the
effects of presbyopia when I occasionally wanted to take my glasses off
to see something up close. But the Lasik procedure seems to have
suddenly accelerated the presbiopia for me.
Joe Dunfee

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